Simon speaks!
"Gav can't play drums, Neil dresses like a woman and Rich does it with sheep!!!"

Two gigs in after The Secrets return from their forced ten week hiaitus from London's live circuit in Autumn 1998 following his headline-grabbing "fall from a tree" (Chimpanzee style - Ed), Simon Herriott confronts his demons.

Kate Servis asks the questions.

Left: Simon Herriott live at Cheerleaders, October 1996.
Photography: Dave Anderson

Kate Servis - (Sarcastically) Ok Simon, what's your favourite breakfast cereal?

Simon - Excellent question, Kate. I'll have to answer that with a flippant remark, erm, Ready Brek. I've had it all my life, and I've never changed, ever since I was about 2 years old, every day of my life.

KS - What sort of category do you put The Secrets in?

S - We've had this one before and it'll have to be melodic-pop. Because we were trying to invent something other than indie or pop so we came up with melodic-pop.

KS - If you were to become a big band would you rather go in the direction of chart music stuff or a cult status?

S - Erm, I'd like to dabble with both. Just dip into the chart bit when we wanted to but mainly be a cult band that was bigger than a cult status.

KS - Do you think that is possible though if you made it on the strength of pop songs.

S - It's been done before, a lot of times before by various groups erm, that you can get a cult status and then just release a pop record which will just pick up a bigger fan base and prop up the fan base you've already got.

KS - But won't the fans you had with the cult status be disappointed?

S - You're always going to disappoint some people but if you get more peopleout of it then all the better I think.

KS - Who writes most of the songs?

S - Erm, in the early days we all sort of did. It always seemed to be three-way, no-one could come up with a song without the other two coming upwith a song at the same time. I was like if I came up with an idea then we all had to start one of Gav's ideas and start one of Rich's ideas. We always had to do it by threes. It ceases to be that way now, I think what happens is it seems to be more me and Gav. Gav will come to my house and record on my 8-track studio and I'll end up pulling it around and like-wise I'll play him a song that I've recorded and he'll pull that around which is the way our material is going at the moment which, to be honest, is better in a way because we have more control of it and we can mould it into the band that me and Gav have always wanted.

KS - So it's easier this way than everyone putting their bits in?

S - Yeah, I wouldn't dismiss other peoples songs but there are various personalities in the group and mine and Gav's are very similar musically and Rich is much more pop which he would probably find it difficult to write some of the, perhaps, more atmospheric stuff than me and Gav would but he can come up with some really good pop songs but it's not really right with what we're doing at the moment and Neil, he's written a couple of songs which have been pretty good actually, I've quite liked them but again, me and Gav seem to get hold of them and pull them around and shred them to pieces and rebuild them again which I think Neil would appreciate more because we've at least used his idea.

KS - Do you write from personal experience or do you have a powerful imagination?

S - Erm, some of the most recent stuff is on a lot more personal basis...hmmmmm.. I would say Turn is definitely very personal, Just For Me, although not a recent one is still very personal, How Does It Feel..? Which is just how I feel but then again things like Violent Faces is more of what it would be like to be in such and such a position and imagining myself to be there.

KS - Wasn't A Cruel Madness based on a book or something?

S - A Cruel Madness was from a book. I wanted to read a book and recreate the feeling that I got from it into a song and it's really weird that when I do sing it I immediately remember exactly how I felt when I was reading the book because I got so engrossed in it and it had such an effect on me for the 3 or 4 days that I was reading it and that one I was quite proud of because of the fact that I did actually achieve what I set out to.

KS - Do you find writing personal songs therapeutic or intrusive, thinking "oh, if anyone sees through this".

S - Erm, (long pause), I wouldn't say therapeutic. Sometimes when you're singing it you can have that feeling of re-living something erm, but some of the stuff is very obvious that we do, not just speaking for me, some of the words are very spelled-out which sometimes could be a little bit more twisted and a little more hidden but it's fine because if people don't have any idea of the song it's hard for them to get into it but if people have an idea then they can work out what the songs mean so its good to give them a few ideas, a few little pointers in there for them to think "ok, I know what that bit means but what about the rest of it" and they can make up their own stories because if we were to just hand it out to them on a book and say "this line means this and that line means that" it would be giving too much away and the songs would be very shallow. It's up to everyone to make their own ideas with everything, you don't want to give them a recipe because it will take the feeling of the song away.

KS - So you would rather they mean different things to different people?

S - Yeah, you can go into songs where people won't know the slightest thing about them and you can go into songs where people can blatantly sing along with and ones where people will still know what it's about but there will still be lines there that people might get a little confused about which is good.

KS - What or who is the greatest influence on you writing words and music and maybe your playing?

S - It's changed. The reason I got into it....

KS - Barry Manilow maybe??

S - Oooh I'll get onto that in a minute..I think it was because I got into The Cure and I thought "yeah that would be really good", so that made me pick up the guitar and want to write songs. Then it went onto people like Miles Hunt from The Wonder Stuff, Neil Finn definitely but Barry Manilow has always been there from an early age, believe it or not. I got brainwashed when I was a young child on long summer trips down to the coast and my mum used to put Barry Manilow on as well as Pinky and Perky but that has almost been erased from my memory.

KS - So Pinky and Perky are not a great influence now?

S - No, cause it's a little harder to sing..

KS - Because, you know sometimes when you're singing..

S - Well I do tend to squeak every now and then but that's intentional, honest.

KS - Speaking of song writing, I was reading through some song lyrics the other day and I believe they were The Cure and I came across some lines "Sometimes there's nothing to feel, sometimes there's nothing to hold." shades of Lies and Unconsciousness there isn't it?

S - Erm , (pauses a while to try and remember song lyrics). no I've never thought that actually. The weird thing about that song is that Gav initially gave me this 2 minute demo and it was then it left for a bit and one summer I just thought "ok, what can this follow onto?" and those lines were the first things that sprung to mind and they were just going to be temporary lines just to give me something to sing and get a melody with and it seemed to fit and erm, no it had nothing to with it but I don't think it is, is it? (Kate shows him the lyrics) Oh yeah (look of astonishment) maybe it was in my subconscious but I don't sing "sometimes" it's "yeah" erm, maybe, but it was probably more in keeping with the song and what was being sung before it that made me pick out those words from the air.

KS - Because I seem to remember when you read that Melody Maker review that you seemed a bit indignant that they happened to compare you to The Cure.

S - Yeah I hate that because it was really unjustified actually because, if anything, we were at a point where we were least sounding anything like that and it's always been a hate of mine to be dragged into something and just be likened to one band. The bit about bass-lines all nicked from The Cure, I think one song had a similar feel but the others were just simple bass-lines. And the fact that they said that I even looked like him when I had short hair and I was wearing white. Gav looked more like Robert Smith than I ever did.

KS - And he wears make-up.

S - Yeah, he wears the make up so it made me laugh. It was a complement in a way but it's something I would never ever relish in to be honest. I would rather be likened to a group of people of which you will probably ask me about later. Although you've already asked me about this.people like Neil Finn is probably my biggest idol and if I was likened to him that would be a million times better than being likened to Robert Smith

KS - I remember you saying it would be a brilliant complement to be likened to Barry Manilow.

S - Erm, only his song writing ability, not by having a big nose although I would like his money.

KS - Do you write any songs for yourself or are they just for the band?

S - I've written a lot of songs just for myself that have never seen the light of day. I was actually doing my own acoustic album and I had about 5 or 6 songs that I never got around to fully recording but they were just going to go on an atmospheric CD with me with and acoustic and a bass and keyboards. Just something that I could lie back to and just listen to and get into the right mood, just a mellow mood. But there's been a lot them like that and there's been a lot a things that I've..ideas that I've just recorded and it's not turned out like it was supposed to be and sometimes it's disappointing but a lot of them just turn out to be just for me. They are just moments on a tape recorder that I still sometimes listen to and think "oh yeah" and they're just a memory of how I felt that day and what my writing was like at the time.

KS - Going back the Robert Smith thing, did you ever wear eye-liner on stage because I thought you did.

S - I tried it once or twice because Gav told a me a story about a friend of his who was in a band who said that to be able to pull it off on stage you have to look different from the audience and whether that means you dress differently or you do things differently on stage or you extenuate your features more. It gives people something more to look at, a little bit more theatrical. I'm not saying I'm going to do a Freddie Mercury with a leotard on or Neil in a leotard..

KS - But you have tried the make-up thing.

S - I've tried just eye-liner but Gav turned around and a lot of people turned around and said that I don't need it. I do like it to extenuate my eyes because it just gives a focus on an otherwise faceless face.

KS - Do you get upset when you don't get stunning reviews?

S - It does sometimes knock me back but things like the Watford Observer are just so petty that anything they write now I just take with a pinch of salt because I despise the bloke who writes it because he's a bit bitter because he was in a band that didn't work and now he hates every band in Watford. Erm, Melody Maker, the one where they criticised us was annoying first of all but we achieved more than probably what most other bands achieved in that we got a big photo in there and we got a good mention. The whole point of the Melody Maker article is to slag bands off and we got a pretty good one out of it. As long as the people who read it realise it was just purely that. But we've had really good reviews, I don't think we've had a horribly bad one, we've been average but it's just a learning process. Hopefully this is relatively early in our career with any luck. We may stop after Christmas, we may stop next year, I don't know.

KS - Your last two gigs have been contradictory musically because The Peel was very poppy and I'm told you've played a heavier set. Are you not sure what direction you're going in?

S - Yes, very sure this time because we've always played with the highs and the lows in the set. We tried to build an audience up at the beginning and then bring them down and then bring them up again so we had this low point in our set and one of the criticisms of one of our other gigs was that we we're trying to do too much in one gig. And then we had our new direction which we took which was a lot harder and a lot more atmospheric which is all well and good but sometimes you've got to play to the people, it's not just for us. We want to attract people to like us and if we're going to alienate them with really heavy music they can't get into then we've got to say okay let's do this gig for the people and it's purely a suggestion I made..well..

KS - a command!!

S - More of a threat. I said "no, I want to do this set this time and keep it all up-beat. Lets really knock 'em for six" and it really worked. But then again, it goes hand in hand with what Gav said that depending on the place we play that we can play a really heavy set. So it's good to have 2 sides to us at the moment, we've got the heavy, the pop and depending on how long we have to play we can mix them up together.

KS - Are you happy playing pop, not just you but all of you or do you just insist on it as a crowd-pleaser?

S - I enjoy playing it and I think Neil enjoys playing it as well.

KS - That's because he likes Boyzone

S - Well, I would kill him if he ever sat there and played Boyzone but it's a lot more physical in the sense that there's a lot more moving on stage, you know, jumping around, getting into the songs, foot-tapping and it has a reaction on the audience as well which is a good feeling because when the audience are enjoying themselves it comes back to us and we enjoy ourselves more. With the heavier ones we have to be a lot more.. I wouldn't say static..on stage but a lot more looking the part and you have to be in that frame of mind or you have to get yourself in that frame of mind to pull it off and sometimes things may be going wrong on stage which is very difficult to keep that sort of morose singing and playing on stage to keep that atmosphere going. But I enjoy both sets which is why we do them and if we didn't enjoy playing both of them and all the songs which we do then we wouldn't play them and there are songs which we've just said we're sick to death of that song and will never play it again. Only because, one, we've probably played them so many times in the first place and two, because we can write so many million songs which are better.

KS - So the atmospheric songs don't put you on a downer or anything.

S - No, funnily enough, they actually bring me up more because it's a lot more enjoyable to play because I get to, I wouldn't say improvise, but I get to put some feeling into the guitar and a little bit more aggression into the voice which I don't always get with pop songs.

KS - We mentioned earlier that if you made it on the strength of pop and had your fan base built around that then going back into heavier stuff would..

S - I don't think we would base it all on pop because I don't think we would change to that one side. I think we're interesting because we do have two sides. If we were just pop, we would just be very shallow and I think people want to aKSciate with the heavier side just as much as the pop side. I don't think you would alienate all the fans, if we were to go completely one sided and have all pop songs and never play anything atmospheric then I think that would be dangerous. Likewise, if we were just to do all the atmospheric ones and build up this religious cult following with devil worshipers and things like that with chicken heads and lamb slaughterings and bits flying on stage like dismembered bodies it would become horrible and then to throw a pop song in there then yes we would alienate them but I think what we've got at the moment is successful enough to keep doing it and to mix and match when we want which pleases a little from column A and a little from column B.

KS - If you were to do pop songs what makes your pop songs any different from the thousands of pop bands that are trying to make it on the pop songs?

S - I think we've got a little more depth to them. I'm not being horrible to other bands but I think we write damn good pop songs. They're melodic, they have catch words and catchy melodies and we just play them well. We probably play them better than other peoples songs. We don't bow to having just loud guitars that back everything up because so many bands are just guilty of just turning the distortion on and thrashing away. I think we have a little more finesse in what we do and there's always three or four layers of guitars which are inter-weaving, probably more so with the recent stuff, which gives everything a different level and isn't just - distortion on - go - distortion off - thank you very much. I won't name any particular bands but there are various bands at the moment which have a distortion pedal and a clean sound which is just, let's play half and half, and it's very boring and very monotonous to sit there and listen to it all. Grunge was like that in a way, heavy bit, quiet but, heavy bit, quiet bit and there wasn't really anything in-between.

KS - So you're glad it moved out of the grunge thing then?

S - I like Nirvana but I would not have seen them getting to this stage so him [Kurt Cobain] killing himself was probably the better thing to do than just trying to push out albums that people weren't interested in because it would have dragged down the rest of the albums that were actually very, very good.

KS - Speaking of guitar sounds, do you only ever use one when you play or do you ever change them around?

S - Um, I try not to at the moment because there's less messing around but if I was to use a guitar for the sound that I wanted then I would have about four or five guitars on stage and it's just too much so the guitar I have at the moment, the Fender Jazzmaster, is probably the best sounding one for the overall guitar sound that I want but I still have my stacks and stacks of pedals (box of tricks - Ed) so whatever I use, I can always get something decent.

KS - Some of the sounds on the album it sounds like you have severaldifferent ones you've used. Lies and Unconsciousness has got that certain sound to it.

S - Yeah, that song in particular is very layered in that it was one of those songs which I immediately liked because it's got a nice guitar riff and the bass sits very nicely and then the other guitar lines give it the icing. There's a phased bit on top which is like the melody in-between the singing and then the 6-string bass which is a nice little melody as well. Any of the guitar parts you can take off and you've still got the whole song there and you can still get away with it.

Picture: Simon recording at Boom! Studios, Chiswick, June 1998. Photography: Gavin Richardson

KS - Is it hard to re-create it in live gigs?

S - We can get away with it but if people know the songs then they fill in those bits in their head anyway. You can hear the bits that aren't there.

KS - Do the different musical styles actually cause conflict within the band?

S - ..(another long pause). I wouldn't say it causes differences at all but I think we've all got the same idea of what we want to sound like at the moment so everyone's on the same wavelength almost. It's not like, you know, we'll have a deep, atmospheric song and someone will want to stick a twiddly guitar riff that's going to sound like...god knows... name a pop band I despise.. Dodgy, a riff like that which trivialises the entire song. I don't think anyone will pull to that extent. There's always going to be disagreements between how heavy a song should be or the reaction it will get. I do tend to have an idea very early into the song with how I think it's going to sound and either I'll say I don't like it or I'll try and pull it into a certain direction and literally sit at home and re-record it over and over and over again on my 8-track until I come up with something I think does the song justice and nine times out of ten I think Gav will agree and say "yeah, it's brought it something extra" and then Gav will say "okay, let's try this bit in it" and it sometimes builds from that. But no, I wouldn't say someone would refuse to play a song just because it isn't pop.

KS - Do you take yourself really seriously then?

S - When I write songs or?

KS - Just in general.

S - In general, no one should take me seriously because I can never say anything without turning away and laughing. I think people know when I'm serious because I have a really, really straight face on but it rarely happens.

KS - I've heard you've shouted at a couple of your band members.

S - (laughs) Only out of pure frustration because a lot of work goes into the band and I hate to see things slacking off out of pure laziness. I don't think any of us want this to just fall away but if I see it going that way - it's just like a kick up the arse basically. Just as much as it's been done to me. I wouldn't say that I'm the only one who's done it, I'm sure me and Gav argue a lot about things we have said things that have been a good kick up the arse for me. I just tend to do it to all three of them (sly laugh). But no I'm not a complete dictator, far from it. I just want the band to be the best it can be and I think I'm a lot more pickier, like quality control, with playing-wise and sound-wise and probably Gav is for performance-wise, you know, how we look. He's been, not picky, but very constructive about things that I've done on stage. I'll come off and he'll say "don't do that again, don't wear that or if you can't say anything decent then don't say anything at all". I could turn around and say, sod off, but if I'm willing to criticise other people constructively then I should expect it myself and I do listen to it.

KS - There was something about a circumcision remark you made at The Peel.

S - Um, yeah, but I did screw up the punch line though. It came out completely cack-handed but that was just a little bit of fun. But things like that you can get away with pop sets because they are very jovial and you don't have to say things which are atmospheric, you can make jokes and involve the audience. I've been told that I've been very moody on stage which is something I try and avoid at all costs.

KS - Like telling people to fuck off

S - I'd love to. Throughout our career there have been some very evil stares but only to spur a reaction.

KS - How much of your time goes into the band, there must be an awful lot?

S - It doesn't seen I've had a day off for ages. I've got so many films and videos and things that I want to do but I just haven't had time. These last few months I have been working so hard, going home, re-recording a song as I said earlier and if I don't like it then I've got to start from scratch. Each time it takes three or four hours so that's the evening gone then I'm back off to work and then do the same the next day. Trying to make things better and come up with ideas. It isn't obviously visible on paper unlike Gav, he spends a lot of time arranging gigs and sending out packages and tapes and replying to advertisements which is fine because he's good at it and it would be silly to take that away from him but likewise I really care about the songs and have to put as much effort in as I possibly can to make sure it's right. So a lot of the songs, perhaps, would have turned out very different if I hadn't put my foot down and kicked up a fuss until I got my own way. Maybe they would have sounded a lot better, I don't know but I think they sound bloody excellent at the moment.

KS - Isn't putting your foot down how you broke your ankle?

S - Um yes, a flying Tarzan-swing and snap, wallop, crack. I've learned my leKSn.

KS - Yes, leave the Tarzan impressions out of gigs.

S - Only until my ankle gets better.

KS - Get a spare wire and swing across the stage with it.

S - Yeah, I'll slice my fingers off probably and I'll be Jeremy Beadle on guitar.

KS - Are you accident prone then?

S - Yes, I have a history of doing stupid things which are far too lengthy to go into. Half of them are probably illegal anyway.

KS - (look of horror)

S - That doesn't mean they're anything to do with sheep.

KS - There are bits about nicking signs aren't there?

S - Um, oh, yeah, I went through stages of that.

KS - You and Neil nicking signs when Gav wasn't there.

S - Oh yeah it was very heavy and I ended up with a hundred splinters in my hands by the end of it. Was it worth it? Yes it was because it elated mine and Neil's status in the neighbourhood.

KS - Going back to the bands image. What image do you want the band to have. It always seems that on stage there is always two different groups, you and Gav and Neil and Rich.

S - I think it's because me and Gav tend to.. um... I'll have to be careful how I say this.... um ..... no, I'll say it, me and Gav make an effort, make a conscious effort to put across an image that is fitting to the music. Sometimes it's very much "oh, I'll turn up in whatever I'm wearing", whether it be a bright red jogging top with a hood or any old jeans and a scruffy T-shirt which is all well and good if you want to be in the Brit-Pop-loud guitar-distortion-boring scene which we don't and I think the thing that always lets us down is our image on stage. We've got good songs but we just look horrible.

KS - Are you going to do anything about that then?

S - Well, it's something that's gradually taking form I think. I mean, we don't want to all look the same, we all want our own personalities but there has to be a point where you have to say "look, what you're wearing really doesn't fit in with the music so either turn up in something else or bring a change of clothes". It goes back to what I said earlier about standing out from the audience and if you just dress in a scruffy old T-shirt, or whatever, you're not going to and you're not going to look special, you're not going to prove to the audience that you've made an effort. Another idea which we've been talking about is not so much with what we're wearing but the actual stage set itself. We've had a sign done, a massive Secrets sign, which we're going to hang behind us. We're talking about getting some sort of drapes to hang over the amplifiers, drums and keyboard to give it that flowing feel which I think is important because it them gives people an immediate impression as soon as they walk into the venue that this band have made an effort and they'll be quite excited.

KS - It all goes together to make a stage show and if people don't have anything to look at.

S - Yes, it becomes very loud background music. We want to give people something to look at as well because that's the whole reason we are on stage otherwise it may as well be a disco and we should play one of our demo tapes. It's now becoming more important how the stage looks and how we are looking because I think we've mastered the songs, to a certain extent, and now we've got to master the performance.

KS - What sort of image would you want? I know Gav is into his silver trousers with the Martin Gore look.

S - Hopefully it's just a passing phase he's going through - his transvestite phase (laughs). No, it's sometimes difficult with drummers because you can't really see what they're wearing but, yeah, if he wants to do it, then great, as long as it's fitting with the music. We don't want to become the next ABC with our gold lame suits and then start playing something like Turn or Violent Faces, likewise, we don't want to go to the other extreme. I think we all go through phases where we want to wear certain things. At the moment mine is my white jeans, black jumper and white shirt just because it's a black and white contrast which I quite like and it looks good on video.

KS - It does look good on stage. Where do you see the band going?

S - Hmmm (longest pause yet) ... I think ... I think ... Hmmm ..

KS - Be completely truthful

S - I think .. it could either be coming to an end.. or a new beginning. Ah, that sounds so profound and overused and clichéd. It was a new start when Neil came which was very good but I think it's coming to a point where we're not playing well, I'm not singing well, we're not progressing at the speed with which I want us to and it could easily fork off into two ways. One is that it fizzles out and becomes less and less which would be a real shame with the amount of work that Gav's put into it as well or hopefully it could become stronger again. It's difficult to say at the moment. I've sometimes walked away from a rehearsal and think "we suck, this is it, I can't put up with this anymore" which is when I really put my foot down or snap which sometimes has an affect. I don't think we've been as good since I've done my ankle in. We had seven weeks off and in those seven weeks we've become very complacent about what we're playing and it's taking far, far too long to get back to the tight standard we had, particularly vocally, my throat is not up to what it was before, I'm not hitting the notes, I'm not singing in tune. Now we've only had two gigs but..

KS - Don't shoot yourself just yet.

S - Well, I just have very very high standards of what I expect of me and what I expect of everyone else so if I expect it from everyone else then I have to expect it from me.

KS - Does it get very frustrating?

S - It's very frustrating. Well, it's very frustrating for me at the moment because I'm not.. performing (laughs). I mean I'm not singing well at all and it's annoying because singing is the focal point in the band and if I'm not singing well it drags everything else down. There are various other problems sound-wise which should be easily overcome which is not being put on a high priority... that's the most diplomatic way of putting it... things are being put off and off and off and off and we're sacrificing a hell of a lot for something that is simple which is just down to lack of commitment which is annoying and frustrating and insulting as well in the same way. It trivialises the amount of work that everyone puts in when something is pulling it back.

KS - Obviously you want to be discovered but what would you do if you weren't? Call it quits or carry on playing pubs?

S - I don't think I would ever stop writing music. I think, if anything, I would get more recording stuff so that I could do better demos and record songs at home. Whether or not I get to play them or perhaps even sell them to people and become a writer, that would be lovely.

KS - You could get loads of money.

S - Well, it would be nice to say yes but there are a lot of people who sell a song for £50 and when the song goes to No.1 the record company get all the money. I think on a live performance aspect, I love playing live, I love singing, I love playing guitar, I love playing bass, I love playing keyboards. If I could travel in time and nab myself from each different moment in time and sit there with me on vocals, drums, oh forget drums because I can't play for toffee so I'll keep Gav for that bit, bass, guitar, keyboards.

KS - And just have Simon, Simon, Simon and Simon?

S - Yeah, it would be great.

KS - You're not a dictator at all?

S - I'd love it, I'd have an entire audience made up of me, 100 of me, just cheering for me and they'd probably get in fights with each other for not playing things right. No, I just enjoy playing live and I think it would be very hard to stop. I think I would have to bow to playing covers although I think some of the songs we do would be ideal to do on a covers circuit because people wouldn't realise they weren't a cover and enjoy them as much if not more.

KS - Do you like doing covers then?

S - It gives us a release, it gives me a release to be able to just have fun. But I go through phases though, I know Gav doesn't like playing them but if we were to play Depeche Mode then I think he'd be converted. But we've got so many good songs that we can play when we want to that we don't really need covers. They're just audience pleasers. We're playing some at our next gig which maybe just to fill in time because we've got to play for so long.

KS - What if you did have to come to say "that's it", because you've been together for 5 years?

S - It's been longer because I was in a band before since 1992 and that went the other way but that ended in a bitchy sort of way. Yeah, one person wanted to be Morrissey

KS - Morose-y

S - Exactly, drivel, so it all fell to pieces. I still don't talk to them that much. One was a childhood friend and that fell to pieces so it's horrible when it ends like that. I don't think this would end on those levels, I don't think it would with me and Gav. I think if it was to finish me and Gav would end up doing something, sort of picking it up again or doing things slightly different which maybe a case of becoming a keyboard band like Depeche Mode.

KS - Then he really could be Martin Gore

S - Yeah, well there you go. Yeah he could play guitar or play keyboards and that would be great. There'd only be two of us and there'd be loads more money to split between us. If things are fizzling out then you can tell well in advance that it's going that way.

KS - What was your other band like?

S - It started off very good and it started fizzling out to become "I want to be the main person, you can't. Stand over there". Of course I disagreed with that and we ended up shouting. I think the band was on it's last legs because we had two singers and I would always sing my songs, he would sing his, I would sing covers that I wanted to do and he'd sing crappy Morrissey songs. It was very good for a time and we had a brilliant reaction and a really good following around Watford. We started fighting over a girl and then we didn't talk to each other for 3 months which is really difficult when you're trying to write songs and trying to play live and just used to glare at each other on stage and very much like this band a few years ago, where two people weren't talking to each other and had to have a go between but as it happened I got the girl and then we all split up but I think it's the best thing that's ever happened. I don't think I would have been happy in that band. I think I could have played a lot better than..no I won't say it because the band are still going.

KS - Who are they?

S - Wicca.

KS - Have you ever supported them?

S - They've supported us, we've supported them. But the two members of my old band are in there and they just sound like Morrissey, trash Smiths and Gene but The Smiths were a million times better and Morrissey is shite and always will be.

KS - Would you every let that happen to The Secrets, let a girl tear you apart?

S - (Quizzical laughter) Are you referring to anything? It almost has and I thought "this is stupid. What do I care more about? The girl or the band?". The band won. I wasn't prepared to throw something away over something so fickle.

KS - Do you throw a lot of things away for the sake of the band?

S - Yeah, a lot of drinking time. There's a lot of things I could do and just say bollocks to the band and do that but I don't and I do want to put as much effort in, only because I want to at the moment. If I don't want to I wouldn't do it and that's when I know things are going downhill and it hasn't got to that stage yet.

KS - Is there a strong friendship in the band?

S - (laughs) There's a very strong threesome.

KS - Whey hey!!!!! There's something the fans want to know about.

S - There's different aspects. There's a threesome, a foursome that works together, there's twosomes and plain old me sitting by myself. I think we go through phases where sometimes, particularly me, it always seems to involve me only because I won't let anything lie until it's right, until I think something's played right or sounding right or extra effort being put in. I mean, me and Gav have had huge arguments which are just skin deep and the next time a see him will all be forgotten. There was one argument that lasted three or four days and I thought "Fuck the band, this is it" but I phoned him up a few days after and he was like "oh, I didn't think you were going to speak to me" so that got back together. I think Neil is very much the same, he will take things with a pinch of salt. Sometimes, it can be very, I wouldn't say bitchy, there's never anything bitchy said face to face it's very sternly said in a way that will spur a reaction. Neil needs encouragement because he doesn't think he can do it and we all know he can and he needs a little more confidence. He's done bloody well since he's come into the band.

KS - You can certainly see a difference in him on stage.

S - Yeah, over the last few gigs, definitely. Just coming down to me telling him to move on stage or he's got to do this or do that. So much so that it's becoming more natural now. He was always very self-conscious about moving on stage and didn't think he should because he was playing the bass and was probably scared of messing the bass lines up. The more comfortable he gets with playing the bass lines the better he is at moving around.

KS - Do you get up to mischief together in your spare time?

S - Apart from mooning coaches, breaking legs, nicking signs, drinking heavily and making complete arses of ourselves. I tend to make an arse of myself every time I go out. Like crawling down St. Albans train station with a mouthful of grass and sniffing peoples legs or crawling across tables or crawling underneath tables, god knows why. The list is endless but it's just good to have a complete extreme and go the other way and be completely stupid and sometimes we do it all together and sometimes we don't.

KS - What makes The Secrets stand out and different from any other pub band that are doing exactly the same thing, trying to get recognised and whatmakes you so special?

S - The songs are better, always the songs. We've always been told we have good songs and I've always thought we've dragged them back by not having a stage presence or anything to back them up. Sometimes we've not played particularly well and ironically it the times that people have said we were brilliant. So god knows what people will think when we do actually play well, I think they will all die, "Bloody hell, they are so good <CHOKE>". I would say it's the songs at the moment but in the coming months it will be everything, the show that we can put on.

KS - Is that your ambition?

S - It's not an ambition, it's a threat. It's something that's going to happen

KS - Or?

S - Or it fades away. It's something that's essential, it's something that's got to happen otherwise The Secrets will be no more.

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